Monday, July 17, 2006

China: Gutting political prisoners for ograns?

China 'harvests live organs':
A former Canadian cabinet member and a human rights lawyer issued a report on Thursday alleging China harvests organs from unwilling live prison inmates, mostly Falun Gong practitioners, for transplants on a large scale.

The report's authors ... implicated dozens of hospitals and jails throughout China after a two-month investigation.

The pair also identified some 41,500 suspect transplants in China since 2000, saying they were unable to track the source of the organs used.

China harvesting Falun Gong organs, report alleges:
China is harvesting organs from live Falun Gong prisoners without consent and destroying their remains, says a report from a former Liberal MP and a Canadian human rights lawyer.


Followers of Falun Gong say it is a spiritual movement to improve physical and mental health, while the Chinese government considers it a cult, banning it in 1999.


Of the 60,000 organ transplants the China Medical Organ Transplant Association recorded between 2000 and 2005, 18,500 of those organs came from identifiable sources, said the report.


The report quotes an organ price list on a website for a transplant centre in Shenyang City, which offers corneas for $30,000 US, kidneys for $62,000 US, livers for $130,000 US and lungs for up to $170,000 US.


Kilgour pointed to an interview with the ex-wife of a Chinese surgeon who allegedly removed the corneas from 2,000 euthanized Falun Gong prisoners over a two-year period. All died and their bodies were burned, said the woman, who was not identified.

Report backs organ harvest claim:
A respected Canadian human rights lawyer and a former Canadian Cabinet member have lent their weight to charges that China has been killing Falun Gong dissidents so it can use their organs.


Kilgour released the transcript of an interview he conducted with a woman who said her former husband, a surgeon, had taken corneas from 2000 people over two years. She said the victims would first be given an injection to cause heart failure.

China kills for organs, says report:
The lawyer, David Matas, and the former secretary of state for Asia and the Pacific, David Kilgour, spent two months investigating the accusations, which China has regularly denied.

"It is simply inescapable that this is going on," Mr Kilgour told reporters on Thursday as he and Mr Matas released their findings.


At 5:35 PM, Blogger bobby fletcher said...

Granny, have you looked into the veracity of Falun Gong's claim?

The Kilgour report's lack of impartiality is evident in the report's failure to account for many contrarian facts that have brought question to Falun Gong's claims, that are freely available outside China. Not going to China does not absolve him of his duty to critically examine ALL evidence:

* Two US government investigations started as early as 2nd week of March, independently found the allegation not credible;

* Other media investigations, including Hong Kong newspaper Takunpao with circulation in Canada also found the allegation not credible. FYI Takunpao lost their government subsidies after they reported critically on Tiananmen Square Massacre.

* Other experts have doubted Falun Gong's claim, including Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation;

* Malaysian government's prior year visit to the alleged camp, which is a joint-venture and has been open to the public for years;

* Epoch Times' rehashing of old, unrelated stories and mis-representing autopsy photo that do not prove torture or vivisection. The fact the photo show autopsy being performed and murder
investigation held by the Chinese government proves the opposite.

Clear Wisdom's original report on Wang Bin(2000) and Liu Yufeng(2005) had no mention of organ harvesting, yet years later these stories are rehashed in Epoch Times' 2006 organ harvesting accusation.

While China's human rights records should be examined, writing allegory of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be precise with our accusation, why should anyone take what we say seriousely?


- US State Department investigation:

- US Congressional investigation reported by The Australian:,20867,18669046-7583,00.html

- Malaysian government documenting official visit to hospital accused by Falun Gong:

- Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation:

- HK newspaper Takunpao's investigation:

- A reporter's first hand experience with Falun Gong media outlet, Epoch Times:

- 2000 Clear Wisdom story on Wang Bin, without mentioning of organ harvesting:

At 3:42 AM, Anonymous C.Panke said...

If China has nothing to hide, then why did they make the U.S. investigation team wait two weeks to visit the "hospital". Why did they have to be guided through the hospital by government officials? Why are the investigators not free to interview anyone privately? Why are all investigations conducted in China strictly guided and guarded by government officials? If they are so sure these accusations are false, why won't they grant these two Canadian investigators Visas' to go to China and investigate. If they have nothing to hide then they would accomodate these requests.

At 4:32 AM, Blogger bobby fletcher said...

CP, have you looked into the veracity of Falun Gong's claim?

In addition to US government investigation, A Chinese dissident's independent investigation also found Falun Gong's accusation not credible:

At 12:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Something to consider...

In regards to the culture and thought of modern Chinese people, they don't usually make up fabrications about the Chinese Communist Party. If they do ( critize, disagree, or accuse)they will be punished severely. Since the conception of the Chinese Communist party, they have ruled with fabrication and violence. They lie to deceive and kill or threaten to kill to create fear and obedience. This is the culture they have created.

Chinese people will avoid confrontation at all costs.

Any type of accusation or complaint the CHinese people publicly make- will be made knowing they could face life threatening punishments. Who would accuse the Chinese Communist Party so frivolously?

To find out more about modern Chinese Culture created by the Chinese Communist Party read the "Nine Commentaries on the Chinese Communist Party"

At 9:09 PM, Blogger makina said...

Bob, do you understand the serious allegations put forth in the Kilgour-Matas report on organ harvesting targeting Falun Gong practitioners across China. ( ) The Chinese embassy has formulated a set of contradictions similar to yours which I completely disagree with--most of it is unfounded and a direct attack on the authors of the report and the Falun Gong.

The free world is still waiting for China to give an explanation for the 41,500 organ transplants unaccounted for (in the report). That is telling. Have the many Falun Gong practitioners who have disappeared in China become unwilling organ donors? The answer is yes.

I find it unfortunate that Mr. Harry Wu's investigation in the North of China proved to be fruitless and that in turn his report is being used to discredit the Kilgour-Matas findings. Maybe his team should have gone there before March 9 when the story first broke in the Epoch Times. News reports confirm that after March 9th, the hospital site was cleaned up swiftly to hide all evidence and only later on the Communist Party officials invited the free world to come and investigate. But oddly enough the regime has refused to grant visas to anyone who asked to investigate further. Meanwhile the US State Dept. was taken through a show tour--the regime being with them every step of the way but they have kept the file opened and are still interested in the case.

It's worth mentioning that the Kilgour-Matas investigation team examined 18 pieces of evidence to draw their conclusions and that the hospital visited by the US State Dept. and Mr. Wu only accounts for a small portion of the report. Many hospitals were investigated, not just that one--so 99% of the report is not about that hospital. Moreover hospital staff openly admitted to the organ source being from the Falun Gong in 15 instances and these digital recordings have been well validated. Matas calls this practice a new from of evil on the planet. BTW the phone bills are available.

China's bloody harvest

The K-M report has been well received in their travels to Brusels, Berlin, London, Washington DC with the Australian government requesting the Chinese embassy for an independent investigation to be allowed. Kilgour has met with rights organizations which are already paying close attention to this issue as is the UN.

It is high time that Communist China be made accountable for their crimes against humanity and for the free world to reassess their take on China. As I recall China was given the 2008 Olympics on the premise that their human rights record would improve. In my eyes the well documented persecution of Falun Gong is enough to disqualify them instantly along with the reports of large scale organ harvesting which would make their record stoop to a new low.

It’s time to quit the Party Bob!

At 11:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

um, yes, Bob. You should go to Beijing and Shanghai. Take your balls with you. Learn how to count and ask for prices, ask for the bathroom, et cetera and walk into a CHINESE supermarket, not a western-style-geared-for-tourist grocer but a Chinese one, and look for the Canned-Fetus. It's there. In cans. That's why some dude did an art installation in Shanghai in 2000 on eating people. If you wanna take the side of the Red Mafia well, then, I guess you're that heartless. By the way, everyone one it's important that everyone knows the way you actually SAY communism in Chinese does not come from the sense of communal, or receiving communion as communism does in most European languages based on its etymology, but in Chinese Putonghua: they say \gong \/chan \/zhu \yi - common product main justice.
No law, only consumerism and production. History is only a convenience for one of the two in the system of what is now also, may I boldly claim, the era of Corporate Socialism. Global.

At 10:51 PM, Blogger MaKina said...

Hey guys, I thought you might be interested in reading this piece about Bobby who's commented on your blog. He's been all over the blogosphere discrediting the organ harvesting report. Have a look.

Western Standard (Alberta): Sowing Confusion; Embarrassed by reports of live organ harvesting, China's sympathizers launch a high-tech disinformation campaign

April 9, 2007 Monday
Final Edition

HEADLINE: Sowing Confusion; Embarrassed by reports of live organ harvesting,

China's sympathizers launch a high-tech disinformation campaign

BYLINE: Kevin Steel, Western Standard

He posts his messages everywhere under several different names on Internet blogs and discussion groups. He writes letters to the editor anywhere and sends e-mails to anyone--anyone who might take seriously shocking evidence that the Chinese government "harvests" and sells live organs from political prisoners. His main message is that the Falun Gong--the group which first brought evidence of live organ harvesting to light--and the Epoch Times newspaper that broke that story are spreading propaganda against China's Communist government. And he's not even Chinese. He is Charles Liu, a 40-year-old Taiwanese-born technology consultant who lives in Issaquah, Wash., and does business in China.

Liu has been so active and so pro-Beijing in his writings that some Falun Gong supporters--in particular Epoch Times reporter Jana Shearer--have accused him of being an agent for the Chinese government, waging a disinformation campaign against them, trying to confuse people, and deliberately wasting everyone's time.

It's a charge that upsets Liu, who dismisses it as "a bunch of kooky friends making unfounded accusations. It's just a bunch of blog BS." As for why he devotes so much energy to attacking the Falun Gong and the organ harvesting allegations, he says, "My position is that I simply don't agree with their brand of politics, because I observed their politics turning from anti-Communist party, to anti-China, . . . and recently it's morphed into this anti-Chinese hysteria and that's going to be hurting people," he says. As an Asian-American, he says he decided to speak up.

He doesn't really explain, when asked, why he started a blog last year called "The Myth of Tiananmen Square Massacre" under the name of Bobby Fletcher (one of his online aliases, which he also uses to comment on the Western Standard's online blog). On that blog, he pushes the minimal 250 casualty figure that the Chinese government has always maintained died that night in 1989 (more reliable estimates put the figure at at least ten times that).

Liu's actions mirror disinformation campaigns waged by the Chinese government in the past. Typically, these include the deliberate spreading of false or misleading facts to sow confusion or doubt among the conflicting accounts. The classic example is the Tiananmen Square massacre; the Chinese government has maintained that no one died in the square itself, that there was only pushing and shoving on the streets around the square, resulting in a few military casualties. Overseas, the CCP relies on its United Front Work department, part of the Chinese intelligence service, to propagate its message. During the Cold War, the Soviets employed many overseas flunkies through their Disinformation Department.

Former Canadian MP David Kilgour, who co-authored a report on China's macabre organ harvesting industry, has received many propaganda e-mails from Liu. For instance, Liu has written repeatedly that a U.S. congressional committee looked into the organ harvesting allegations and found nothing.

"[David] Matas and I gave evidence to that subcommittee and got support from both the Republican chairman and the Democratic vice-chair," says Kilgour. "I just came to the conclusion he was trying to waste my time, and I have other things to do."

Winnipeg-based human rights lawyer, and Kilgour's co-author, David Matas, really doesn't know what to make of Liu. "I don't know who he is, but what he does is spend a lot of time replicating nonsense to defend the Chinese government," Matas says.

The only concern Matas has is that Liu seems to know who he and Kilgour met with in the United States to discuss their report. Matas discovered Liu had sent e-mails to politicians--and their staff--prior to the meetings. "The only people who would have that information would potentially be the Chinese government. I can't imagine how Liu would know we were meeting with those people," Matas says. "We're not super-secretive, but you can't find information on the Internet or in any public place about who we're meeting with, where and when." He himself has received at least 10 e-mails from Liu, all of which he's ignored. Maybe Matas is onto something with that approach.

Colour Photo: CP, Dave Cahn; David Kilgour (left) and David Matas, co-authors of a report on China's organ harvesting industry: How does Liu know who they're meeting with?

LOAD-DATE: March 29, 2007


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